tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post114161161224306727..comments2024-01-31T09:33:05.146-08:00Comments on Two World Collision: Community of Profound LonelinessErichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03948061964482528393noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1142009246217456052006-03-10T08:47:00.000-08:002006-03-10T08:47:00.000-08:00Jean Marc - Bonjour! welcome to my blog! i'm glad ...<B>Jean Marc</B> - Bonjour! welcome to my blog! i'm glad you are a part of an inclusive church that welcomes you.<BR/><BR/><B>Kiturgy</B> - thanks for your comments. I have chosen to worship in community and i have built relationships with those in the Church that are very welcoming. Note my comments to Dawn and the links in right column of this blog regarding my Church paradigm. Bless you!<BR/><BR/><B>Jon</B> - <BR/><BR/>you said,"<I>I think a lot of it comes down to FALSE EXPECTATIONS of church people.. I mean what we are talking about here is people not a 2hr community club<BR/></I>"<BR/><BR/>it's not that i think Sunday "church" service needs to be a 2hr community club, it's that people need to stop confining their interaction with the church community to merely 2 hours every week at a "service". <BR/><BR/>you also said, "<I>Its like.. your damned if you do and your damned if your dont</I>"<BR/><BR/>I'm talking about connecting with people during the week - valuing and living out a Kingdom value of relationships. If the church "community" were interacting as a community, then it doesn't matter how "deep" Sunday is because it's simply another point of connection - not the sole means of connection.<BR/><BR/>You're not 'damned if you do and damned if you don't'. You're just missing the point if you think all lonely people are wanting is to be connected with at that 2 hr service and not during the week.<BR/><BR/>Too much of a burden? Can't connect with EVERY single person at church during the week? I'm not saying one has to. But how about connecting with the ones that seem to need it.<BR/><BR/>It's not a false or even unreasonable expectation to have for people within the Church community to value depth of relationships. We are called to walk with each other.<BR/><BR/><B><I>"But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it." (1 Corinthians 12:24-26)</I></B><BR/><BR/>Additionally, I'll reiterate again. In this post, i acknowledged that there are profoundly lonely people within the Church. These people simply can't be ignored by saying that they are just placing false expectations on all of us non-lonely people. The Church ought to have compassion on these people who are obviously in need.<BR/><BR/>My other point was that these lonely people can't simply expect other people to do the connecting with them. Lonely people in church need to take the initiative to connect with other people and to let their needs be known (to safe people). I know its a risk but they have to choose not to be lonely anymore. This is what I talked about at the end of the post.<BR/><BR/>As for the Gay thing, i appreciate your perspective, Jon, regarding those Scriptures. I shared that perspective for 13 years. I have since wrestled through it in prayer and study and reading and I have a different perspective regarding the interpretation of those Scriptures. It's not compromise because i simply want to enter into lust. That would be minimizing the wrestling process I went through and the journey of life with Christ that i'm on. I am walking with the Lord. The fruit speaks for itself. This blog chronicles some of that process. <BR/><BR/>I do appreciate your perspective.<BR/><BR/>Blessings all!<BR/>EricErichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03948061964482528393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141974611915091182006-03-09T23:10:00.000-08:002006-03-09T23:10:00.000-08:00I think a lot of it comes down to FALSE EXPECTATIO...I think a lot of it comes down to FALSE EXPECTATIONS of church people.. I mean what we are talking about here is people not a 2hr community club<BR/><BR/>I mean ask yourself this.. When you go to work, do you expect people to come up to you everyday and say.. Hi, how are you blah blah.., do you expect people to come up to you when you go to the supermarket.. Of course not!.. <BR/><BR/>We have placed false expectations on the church in general. Jesus didnt come to create a 2hr service on a sunday where people could be patted on the head.. there there.. everything is going to be ok..<BR/><BR/>Now im with you on the whole thing of SUPERFICIAL cheesy grins and the sense that some people greet only to do what they feel is their duty... But one thing I have learnt is that we dont know whats going on in a persons heart when they greet someone... <BR/><BR/>Its like.. your damned if you do and your damned if your dont.. meaning.. if you dont get out of your comfort zone and greet people.. there is a group of people who want to belly ache about it... and tell you maybe you should think about..<BR/><BR/>then there is a group of people.. who want to belly ache if you do greet people, as they want to say its false..<BR/><BR/>Listen.. if you go along to a church at all its to Worship God together with other believers, and to encourge one another.. <BR/><BR/>not to place false expectations on people..<BR/><BR/>Also in regards to you being Gay.. sorry but I disagree with that lifestyle and do not believe it is what God has intended.. If he had.. he would of at the dawn of creation created<BR/><BR/>2 males or just 2 females.. or he would have made it very clear.. yes I have no problems with homosexuality.. But he didnt<BR/><BR/>he created a man and a women and hes made it very clear in the bible that being given over to lusting after each other<BR/><BR/>Romans 1:27<BR/><BR/>The males in the same way also left natural sexual intercourse with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty for their perversion.<BR/><BR/>There is a big I suggest and recommend you read its called " Wild at Heart "<BR/><BR/>Blessings<BR/><BR/>JonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141856640011605172006-03-08T14:24:00.000-08:002006-03-08T14:24:00.000-08:00Thanks, Eric, for your sincerity. It's the first t...Thanks, Eric, for your sincerity. It's the first time I read your blog (I've heard about it on GCN). I appreciate your willingness to be real with other christians. I'm glad to be a member of an inclusive church in Paris, France, where I can meet and kiss other gays after the Sunday service ! And we have a LGBT minister too. God bless you ! Jean-Marc (French!).Jean-Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06653389564680694808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141763182214865042006-03-07T12:26:00.000-08:002006-03-07T12:26:00.000-08:00I can share many of your sentimentsGod Willing :We...I can share many of your sentiments<BR/><BR/>God Willing :<BR/>We will learn our life lessons and <BR/>a good lighted path will be shown.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141757756978194122006-03-07T10:55:00.000-08:002006-03-07T10:55:00.000-08:00Hi Julia,Not a problem! I love your encouragement ...Hi Julia,<BR/><BR/>Not a problem! I love your encouragement and your heart. I'd love to still come visit your church's service. Maybe we can go to lunch afterwards! =)<BR/><BR/>You're right, people are typically in their own zone and not paying attention to who may be lonely. My call on the Church is to get out of "their zone" and into the Hot Zone where God's people are wrestling with life issues.<BR/><BR/>Let's live out the compassion that Jesus modeled for us:<BR/><BR/><I>"When He saw the crowds, He had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." (Matthew 9:36)</I><BR/><BR/>and in His own words:<BR/><BR/><I>"...<B>I have compassion for these people</B>; they have already been with me three days and have nothing to eat. I do not want to send them away hungry, or they may collapse on the way." (Matthew 15:32)</I>Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03948061964482528393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141709981479251962006-03-06T21:39:00.000-08:002006-03-06T21:39:00.000-08:00Hi Eric,Thanks for the post. I like that you're le...Hi Eric,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the post. I like that you're letting out your anger. <BR/><BR/>After-church coffee hour is hard in some ways because there's sort of an expectation that everyone will be nice to each other, but not really 'let loose,' because it's not like an actual party. And people have their routines and their usual friends. My church is very gay and not that big, yet I felt some of the same things you did until I'd been there about two years. You and I are a little the same. For people like us, it just takes time and effort.<BR/><BR/>Good luck, and enjoy your new, inclusive churches!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141664984014752122006-03-06T09:09:00.000-08:002006-03-06T09:09:00.000-08:00The church today has a major comfort addiction. It...The church today has a major comfort addiction. It's generally unreceptive to change and only accomodates emotional responses within a certain range. The "nicey-nice" talk before and after service sets the whole tone; "we'll be keeping things safe today, thanks."Zekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01190701168199299680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141632909815030042006-03-06T00:15:00.000-08:002006-03-06T00:15:00.000-08:00Thanks for the links, I especially liked the 'take...Thanks for the links, I especially liked the 'take a bullet' post.Dawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02508567091434947464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141630314964530632006-03-05T23:31:00.000-08:002006-03-05T23:31:00.000-08:00Good luck. You are dealing with some heavy issues....Good luck. You are dealing with some heavy issues.The Big Cheesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07159699384047835252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141629274808033432006-03-05T23:14:00.000-08:002006-03-05T23:14:00.000-08:00thank you for the invitation julia. i appreciate ...thank you for the invitation julia. i appreciate that.<BR/><BR/>it sounds like you may not have been taking the entire post in as a whole.<BR/><BR/>the loneliness that i speak of in this post is primarily a reflection of the past of how it felt when i was in the closet and attending non-inclusive churches. <BR/><BR/>while i still understand loneliness, i'm at a very different place now. i am a part of inclusive churches, i have vision and direction for the future (as previous posts indicate), and i've learned much about what I can personally do to not experience such loneliness (the whole second half of this post is all about this!). <BR/><BR/>In terms of me being depressed . . . the whole post ought to be considered in context, not just the beginning portion where I talk about the lonely experience. Consider the three lessons that I mentioned and how i've been applying them. I talk about how i've been taking the initiative to connect.<BR/><BR/>As for me being partially responsible and allowing myself to be a victim . . . I mention both of these things in the post as well and how it had always pissed me off every time they continued to redirect the focus on me rather than what they could have been doing to be a better community.<BR/><BR/>My point in this post was that, yes, i do have the ability to choose not to be lonely and that i was sharing ways on how those of us who are can not be lonely. <BR/><BR/>But my point was also that the people in a church community can't simply say, "hey, okay, you're lonely, get over it".<BR/><BR/>I'll say this part again: <I>"...but it was their lack of compassion for my loneliness that fueled my loneliness"</I>.<BR/><BR/>perhaps i failed to articulate myself well enough. i'll reread and edit....<BR/><BR/>nevertheless, thank you for your encouragement!<BR/><BR/>EricErichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03948061964482528393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141624977630926502006-03-05T22:02:00.000-08:002006-03-05T22:02:00.000-08:00Thanks Dawn. I think you're right in terms of the...Thanks Dawn. I think you're right in terms of the next few years . . . actually the next 25 years. Take note of my posts on my "paradigm of Church" in the right side column of this blog. I talk alot about that.<BR/><BR/>Blessings!<BR/>EricErichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03948061964482528393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14457001.post-1141621379960604462006-03-05T21:02:00.000-08:002006-03-05T21:02:00.000-08:00You may want to consider, if you haven't already, ...You may want to consider, if you haven't already, to start a house church or bible study if you will. These are house based gatherings where it is less formal, more personal and people seem to feel more connected to each other.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think this is what is going to be taking off in the next few years as the 'mega' churches become more political or water-down their preaching.Dawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02508567091434947464noreply@blogger.com